Podcast
Healing The World w/ Dr. Ramnik Patel
Healing The World w/ Dr. Ramnik Patel
Ramnik Patel, MD
Neonatal and Pediatric Surgeon
Ramnik Patel, MD
Neonatal and Pediatric Surgeon
Dr. Ramnik Patel is a neonatal and pediatric surgery and pediatric urology specialist in the NHS, UK. Dr. Patel graduated from the M P Shah Medical College, Jamnagar and completed residency and fellowship post graduate training in general surgery at Irwin Groups of University Teaching Hospitals followed by post-doctoral fellowship in pediatric surgery at Post Graduate Institute of Medical Education & Research, Chandigarh after completing medical training. Subsequently he received Diplomate of National Board of Medical Examinations at All India Institute of Medical Sciences, New Delhi and Fellowships of the Royal College of Surgeons, Edinburgh, and Intercollegiate Board of Surgical Specialities in the UK in both general and pediatric surgery with foreign and national training numbers. He passed temporary registration assessment board (TRAB) certification to practice as attending neonatal and pediatric surgeon and urologist by National Post-graduate Medical College, Lagos and West African College of Surgeons, Ibadan. He underwent combined AMC/RACS assessment and was offered a senior registrar (Fellowship) post in ANZ for completion of FRACS in Pediatric Surgery at Hamilton, New Zealand. He has obtained Fellowship of the European Board of Pediatric Surgery and European Board of Pediatric urology examinations. Subsequently he obtained MD from New York while doing international visiting fellowship at the Children Hospital, MSKCC, New York, USA. He has obtained Diploma in Child Health from RCPS, Glasgow, Membership and Diploma in Obstetrics and Gynecology and Sexual and Reproductive Medicine from RCOG, London and FFARCSI from Dublin, Ireland. He has additional graduate education in BA(Psychology), BSc (Biostatistics) and B Com (audits and accounts) and has done several courses including BLS, ALS, ATLS and APLS. He has several distinctions, honours, gold medals, scholarships, prizes, university first rank and staff award throughout his medical career. He has done experimental research in splenic preservation in dogs and a fetal surgery model of gastroschisis in Rabbits and clinical research in secreto- motility disorders.
Dr. Patel is currently affiliated with the Children Hospital, Queens Medical Centre, Nottingham University Hospitals NHS Trust, Nottingham UK, continuing Ph D research in the specialized scientific area of Paediatric Surgery. He has worked in all five continents of the world and truly global personality. He holds several honorary and visiting posts in India such as Hon. Associate Professor, M P Shah Medical College and Chief, Division of Pediatric Surgery, Dept of Surgery at Irwin Group of University Teaching Hospitals, Jamnagar, Gujarat, India. Director-Professor, Department of Surgery, PGICHR and Chief Neonatal and Pediatric Surgeon at K T Children Government University Teaching Hospital and Hon. Consultant Neonatal and Pediatric Surgeon at H J Doshi Trust Hospital, Rajkot Gujarat India. Visiting Professor, Spiritual College and University of Spiritual Incorporeal God Father and associated University teaching J. Watumull Global Hospital and Research Centre, Mt Abu, Rajasthan Visiting Professor, MGM Institute of Health Sciences and associated university Teaching Hospitals, Mumbai – Pune Hwy, MGM Campus, Kamothe, Panvel, Navi Mumbai, Maharashtra 410209.He is honorary and visiting faculty at various children and university Teaching hospitals in other neighbouring Asian countries, Far East, Middle East, African and South American continents. He also serves as an honorary reviewer for Tropical Medicine, Surgery and pediatric surgery journals and has authored several original research articles along with chapters in different books related to Surgery. Dr. Patel has extensive experience in teaching nursing, medical students, residents, fellows in training, colleagues and seniors in continuing professional development. Dr. Patel has worked as a member of a large team and was involved in multi-disciplinary and multi-national teams and has done Indian Civil Services Examination(P), by UPSC, New Delhi, PG Diploma in Higher Education from the Indira Gandhi National Open University, New Delhi and PG Diploma in Hospital Administration at the Institute of Marketing and Management, Bombay. He has several advanced IT, ITU, Legal, Administration and acute medicine qualifications and has done Masters in Laws (LL M) and is a recognised medicolegal expert and consultant.
Episode Information
Urologist Dr. Dana C. Rice talks about misconceptions related to UTIs, developing her UTI Tracker App, Kidney Stones, and more.
Topics Include:
- Growing up in Supedi, a tribal village in India, and how an early experience as a patient led to his interest in medicine
- His many academic focuses and endeavors
- His experiences with various cultures around the world
- How Doctorpedia can help educate patients
- Meditation and yoga
- What he does to stay healthy
``Any health project is a partnership. The promotion of health and prevention of disease is in the hand of the patient.``
Dr. Ramnik Patel
``The Sanskrit language is very fascinating. Every word will have four meanings. So you need to apply the meaning, which fits into our kind of research.``
Dr. Ramnik Patel
``The good qualities and good habits in life will keep you away from the doctors in the first place and any disease in the second place. So these are the two fundamental things, promotion and prevention, then early detection and a possible medical cure.``
Dr. Ramnik Patel
Episode Transcript
Episode Transcript
Daniel Lobell: (00:00)
This podcast or any written material derived from its transcripts represents the opinions of the medical professional being interviewed. The content here is for informational purposes only, and should not be taken as medical advice. Since every person is unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any personal or specific needs.
Daniel Lobell: (00:22)
Welcome to the Doctorpedia podcast. I’m your host, Daniel Lobell. And today I am truly honored to be on the line, all the way from the United Kingdom, I am speaking with Dr. Ramnik Patel. How are you, Dr. Patel?
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (00:36)
Yes, I’m fine. Thank you. And how are you, Daniel?
Daniel Lobell: (00:40)
Thanks for asking. I’m also doing well. So, before we jump into any of the medical stuff, I love talking to the doctors about their background. I know you grew up in India, and I’d love to hear a little bit about where you grew up and what that was like.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (00:56)
Yes. So basically, I was born in Gujarat state of India, which is in the Western part of India. And born in a village called Supedi, a tribal village, situated between Porbandar and Rajkot, which is the birthplace and the workplace of Mahatma Gandhi, an old princely Gondal state of Saurashtra and Kutch western region of Gujarat state. We do belong to the Old Gondal state where the education in our region is the highest in Gujarat state, basically.
Daniel Lobell: (01:29)
Mhm. So, do you think that accounts for the fact that you became a doctor because you were so well educated there?
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (01:36)
Yes, certainly in the background. And some of the circumstances came along that I had to deviate from the norms of the family to be a doctor in the Indian system of medicine. And actually, I had a fracture. I fell down from a tree and had a fracture of my right humerus bone, the arm bone, and then the Indian system would go for a simple splinting. And then we were taken to the district hospital, the government hospital, to do x-rays to confirm the diagnosis, which was done clinically. And then one of my American cousins was there. He took me to an FRCS doctor, one of the expert orthopedic surgeons in Rajkot, and then we fixed it there. And at the end of the day, I was in the standard 10 in Supedi High School at the time, and I just asked him, “What did you do?”
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (02:41)
He said, “I didn’t do anything. I just put a plaster.” Nature heals pediatric fractures, that was my understanding from the science subject.
Daniel Lobell: (02:51)
Mhm. Yeah.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (02:51)
So I said, you charged a lot, about $5,000 in those days, it was quite a high charge. And then it was quite an attractive proposition to go for the allopathic medicine rather than traditional family of Indian system of Medicine (Ayurveda) and Western education, of course, there is a craze in India that if you are trained overseas – especially the US and UK – then you stand out of the crowd as a big doctor, kind of thing. And your credentials have been certified by the Western world. So that was another attraction.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (03:30)
So I deviated from the norms of the family and I joined the allopathic medical education, and nearly at the same time, I had an introduction to the Spiritual University in India, which is quite international at the moment. You might be knowing, you might have heard about this, godfatherly Brahma Kumaris, Godly University, Spiritual University, which is based in Rajasthan state of India in Mount Abu. So that was a background of the Indian system of medicine, the spiritual kind of university. And then I took the medical university at the allopathic medical university. So, it’s combination of all three of them allowed me to flourish quite a lot.
Daniel Lobell: (04:36)
At what point did you move to the United Kingdom? Was that with your family or did you do that on your own? And when you did, did you have to re-study to certify there for medicine?
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (04:47)
No, what happened actually is, while I did my pre-science in college, the first year of science. The second year we went into the premedical course, and the third year was our first MBBS and second MBBS and third MBBS. So, while I was doing my medical graduation, what I did parallel was, because I had a lot of interest in psychology. So, I joined BA graduate course in psychology in Punjab University as a corresponding first-year student. By the Government has given me the scholarship and we need to go one vacation to the north, in the Punjab. And the second thing I joined was after pre-science, I entered into pre-medical, but at the same time, I was interested in biostatistics. So, I joined BSc graduate course in Annamalai University, down south.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (05:51)
So, one vacation I’ll go up in the north, one vacation I’ll go down into the south of India to learn those two things, BSC in biostatistics and BA in psychology, and in the city, Jamnagar where I trained for the medicine and the MS, I did my Bachelor of Commerce, that is BCom.
Daniel Lobell: (06:17)
Mhm.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (06:17)
So auditing accounts, as a business people, we are in Gujarat, we are Patels, my community. So, we are basically a business community. So, we need to learn auditing accounts, compulsory here as a family tradition kind of thing.
Daniel Lobell: (06:32)
Right.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (06:33)
So I did all three streams, namely science/maths, commerce and arts faculties, of general broad spectrum graduate education. So, bachelor of arts in psychology, bachelor of science in biostatistics, and bachelor of commerce in auditing accounts. So that was my side thing as a correspondence course with personal contact programs and workshops and practical experiments annually. Main stream was medicine. So, I finished my MBBS as a top university candidate with two gold medals, prizes, awards, scholarships and then entered into the internship and general surgical residency, which continued for three years. And then I became a senior resident in general surgery in Jamnagar. While I was doing this residency in general surgery, I joined a law college and did my general LLB, special LLB, diploma in taxation laws, and diploma in labor laws kind of thing. Before diplomas and degrees, I did in the law, I decided to as side scene. Because these were evening colleges. So, while doing my post-graduation in general surgery and residency, we usually have three hours in the evening, six to nine classes. So that was kind of a by-product, because I didn’t like to waste my time. So, I invested those things into education. And when I finished the medical and law education, general surgery residency, I had a deputation from the government of Gujarat state to the Postgraduate Institute of Medical Education and Research in Chandigarh for doing my MCh. That is a postdoctoral super speciality course in pediatric surgery.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (08:25)
So, the moment I finished that, I had an opportunity for the government of India to sponsor me for West African Economic Community kind of bilateral cultural and educational exchange program like thing between governments for a couple of years, 1986 to 1988 period for a deputation as a consultant neonatal and pediatric surgeon. So that was University of Maiduguri Teaching Hospital in Nigeria.
Daniel Lobell: (08:55)
So you went from the UK to Nigeria then?
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (09:00)
No, no. From India, I went to Nigeria. And from India, I already applied for my Royal College exams. So, the moment I went there in West Africa, I applied for my part one FRCS.
Daniel Lobell: (09:21)
Mhm.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (09:21)
But then while I was there, I had a British fellow from Royal College of Surgeons, my professor there. So, they expedited my overseas doctor training scheme (ODTS) to Britain, and I came down to the UK to do my general surgery FRCS fellowship in general surgery. So, I did my part one examination from the Royal College of Surgeons of England. But then I got my overseas doctor’s training scheme in London with the Great Ormond Street Children’s Hospital, and in Royal Liverpool Children’s Hospital in Alder Hey, Liverpool. So, I was supposed to do at least 12 months as a junior doctor, and then I can appear for the part two examination, but then Professor Lewis Spitz, who was the Nuffield Professor of pediatric surgery at Great Ormond Street Children’s Hospital, he suggested that I should do the part two examination from overseas center from India, and come back for the pediatric surgical fellowship rather than do the general surgery residency — I mean, the kind of thing. So, he sent my CV via fax to the Royal College of Edinburgh and they accepted my training in India. So, I was eligible to appear for the final FRCS exam, which I took overseas in Singapore.
Daniel Lobell: (11:05)
Wow.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (11:05)
So I went back to India because when I trained in India, I had a bond, you know, that has to be executed with the medical school, takes at least five years after completing my residency and fellowship, I will be doing my service to the community for five years. So, I went back to Gujarat at my original medical school, MP Shah Medical College, from ’88 to 1992. I completed my five years of the bond period, which is called my ethical obligation to serve the community, because the medical school has given me the education.
Daniel Lobell: (11:53)
Mhm.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (11:53)
So that I completed in ’92. And I was promoted as a professor of pediatric surgery at Postgraduate Institute of Child Health and Research and KT Children Government University Teaching hospital in Rajkot City, where I continued for five years up to ’97. And from 1997, I was invited as a university grant commission visiting professor of surgery and head of the department of surgery at Mahatma Gandhi Mission Medical School in Bombay.
Daniel Lobell: (12:30)
Unbelievable. So, you’ve really been all over the world, practicing medicine.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (12:35)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Daniel Lobell: (12:36)
Where would you say were the most drastic differences, what countries would you say being a doctor in those countries was just such a different world?
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (12:48)
Actually my mission was, as part of the mission, the first mission was to gain knowledge in as broad a spectrum as possible in all branches. The second thing was to do practical training in as many areas as possible. And third thing was to capture the qualifications from most of the world, kind of a global perspective. And the fourth thing was to do service in all five continents of the world. So virtually I have worked in all five continents and of course, the best continent is America and Canada without any prejudice. And second of course is Australia, and third would come Europe and the UK. And of course, the developing world is still in the process. Far East and the Middle East are in between, because they have the resources and technology. But again, the setup is not that ideal with them. They still fall into the developing world. And of course, I have connections in South America, in Africa and in Asia. So neighboring regions, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, all those visiting kinds of things, helping them out, building their neonatal surgical units, pediatric surgical centers and all that kind of things.
Daniel Lobell: (14:25)
You can really say at this point that you healed the world.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (14:29)
Yes, exactly. [Daniel chuckles] That was the plan from the beginning, that we need to go globally, but work locally and then be vocal. The other thing was looking for a balance between four subjects. The academics, the research, the clinical and the management. So, I did the Indian civil services exam as a general administration. And I did the diploma in medical hospital planning and administration. So that was the Institute of Marketing and Management from Bombay. Because my mentor was Late Professor R K Gandhi, and Madam Professor S S Deshmukh who was the vice chancellor of Bombay University. So, they said, be in front of the global level, but start from the local level, do as much as you can from the national level, and then go international and capture the maximum good qualities, good positive thinking, positive working, build up a multinational, multicultural team.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (15:38)
And I have, along the way, so many friends and so many cultures and I learned a lot. And I have a hobby of traveling a lot, so that has all helped. So, I was a bachelor when I went for the first time to Africa and the UK. And when I was in India I got married. And then of course after that, we moved with the family. But because I had my higher education, FRCS qualification in the UK, so I only needed the English ILETS examination to get registered with the GMC.
Daniel Lobell: (16:22)
You can make a movie about your life. I think everybody is better off because you hurt your arm bone when you were a kid. [Daniel laughs] I mean, it’s unbelievable.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (16:32)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That was a blessing in disguise, I would say.
Daniel Lobell: (16:36)
Absolutely. So tell me, what do you think are the most important facets of the doctor-patient relationship, having been a doctor all over the world?
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (16:45)
Yeah. So, the best thing is listening to the patient and parent story. Important clues in their communication to pick them up, their conscience and their actual circumstances and belief system with empathy, of course. And when you look into their perspective and see what options are available, and then rather than putting a single kind of thing, give them a choice of different options and their pros and cons. And let them decide guided kinds of things. We can always provide them with some kind of professional expertise, but ultimately, depending on their circumstances and their level of education and the resources and the time available, they can go for whichever option suits them best.
Daniel Lobell: (17:48)
Yeah. Obviously this podcast is being conducted on behalf of Doctorpedia. So I want to ask you a little bit about the online health space. How do you feel Doctorpedia can help the online health space, and what — we’re excited to have you involved — what role are you taking in Doctorpedia.com and how can people find out more?
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (18:12)
See, the best part of this pandemic was shifting from the personal, face to face communications and consultation, to kind of an online education and online consultation, video consultations, and so many things and concepts have changed a lot in the last two years, I would say.
Daniel Lobell: (18:35)
Mhm.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (18:35)
So now the role of Doctorpedia is so great, that it is a kind of a resource, which more and more is to be utilized by the public at large. And quite often patients have been seen by the experts locally, but then they want a second opinion or expert opinion. So, they’re allowed to do it. And here is the stage available for them, to come and visit Doctorpedia and see whom they can contact. And there are a lot more specialties and specialists available on this platform, where people can use them as expert opinion, second opinion. And there are so many learning things available on Doctorpedia. So, this resource would be an authenticated resource rather than Google, and getting a lot of unscreened things. These are all experts, internationally recognized and accredited. So that would be the biggest resource available on the globe.
Daniel Lobell: (19:46)
Yeah. So what role are you playing in Doctorpedia?
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (19:54)
Doctorpedia, I would be happy to do consultations. I would be happy to put a lot of academic aspects, research aspects, publication aspects – I don’t mind. I’m an academician, I’m a researcher and yeah, of course investigate — I mean, investment wise, again, I’m one of a kind of entrepreneur. So, I go for that side as well. So, it should be a kind of a balanced portfolio at Doctorpedia, and this is a very good platform for me.
Daniel Lobell: (20:30)
Wonderful. What kind of things do you do just for fun?
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (20:37)
A lot of socialization, sports, swimming, cycling, campaigning, touring, traveling, photography, and music. And we do table tennis and go for walking, cycling, meditation, and remain quite busy with our social life.
Daniel Lobell: (21:12)
Yeah. It sounds like it.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (21:13)
And, you know, India is the country of festivals, so we do enjoy those things.
Daniel Lobell: (21:20)
Do you go back to India for the festivals?
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (21:24)
Yes. And even in the UK, we have a lot of festivals. While I was in the US, there are so many festivals that are regularly being celebrated. So you feel at home, you know?
Daniel Lobell: (21:37)
[Daniel chuckles] Yeah. I love the Indian festivals. I haven’t been to any, but what I’ve seen on TV and in photographs, how colorful they are, and it just looks like a very exciting and vibrant thing.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (21:50)
Exactly.
Daniel Lobell: (21:52)
Yeah. So…
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (21:54)
And on the spiritual side, I do have meditation, and I’m a teacher-trainer in yoga and meditation.
Daniel Lobell: (22:02)
Really? So —
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (22:04)
So part of my work belongs to that side as well. And silence, and my wife is the master of Sanskrit.
Daniel Lobell: (22:16)
Mhm.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (22:16)
So the Indian scriptures, there’s a lot of research we are doing from the old Indian scriptures which are in Sanskrit language. So, she’s there to translate and give me all the details.
Daniel Lobell: (22:28)
Okay.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (22:30)
And then we experiment on it, because the Sanskrit language is very fascinating. Every word will have four meanings. So you need to apply the meaning, which fits into our kind of research. So it’s quite an interesting area there.
Daniel Lobell: (22:47)
Yeah, very much so. So it seems like meditation is a huge part of your life and something you recommend to people for their health. What other things would you tell people you do to keep healthy, and what do you recommend other people do, generally speaking, to maintain good health?
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (23:12)
Yes. So the various arms at the other institute logo is made up of six elements. The first thing is promotion of health. So lifestyle and work-life balance and sleep hygiene and good amount of sunlight, rest, exercise, all kinds of balance in life. The family is the priority, the nuclear for the social architecture, and then moving from there, we need to take care of the, most of the observing as much as we can. Being a spiritual side. Smoking – we don’t do it. We don’t take alcohol.
Daniel Lobell: (24:00)
Mhm.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (24:00)
And the thing is, all the bad habits, which are now proved by evidence based medicine, is out from the beginning. So part of the research which we did shows that the patient part is a partnership. Any health project is a partnership. The promotion of health and prevention of disease is in the hand of the patient.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (24:27)
So all the patients can do the promotion of their health and prevention of disease by immunization, by keeping clean hygiene, and looking into the basic aspects of the health balanced nutrition and all sorts of basic aspects of the health. So that is natural doctors, seven doctors or people to 10 doctors, good habits, basically. So all those things, all parents and patients, I do insist on keeping the track of the good side. And the good qualities and good habits in life will keep you away from the doctors in the first place and any disease in the second place. So these are the two fundamental things, promotion and prevention, then early detection and a possible medical cure. If not medically amenable, then surgical treatment. So medical treatment and surgical treatment are the next two available options.
Daniel Lobell: (25:32)
Mhm.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (25:32)
And failing which, we go on to rehabilitation and research. So cancers and all that, you can control the disease if you can’t cure it. And finally, after rehabilitating, there is a scope of research, somewhere along the line, the experimental things we do, then we translate into the clinical medicine and try to synthesize some sort of escape from the abysmal prognosis and very bad people are not surviving, or they have not good quality of life. So these are the six fundamental things we move around and try to add just one over the other.
Daniel Lobell: (26:19)
Very interesting doctor. Thank you very much for your time and for your knowledge. There must be something in the air in that part of India, to have produced Gandhi and yourself. I mean, I think maybe there’s wisdom in the air there.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (26:33)
Yes. It’s the birthplace of the godfather in India. And because of this, you know the Bhagavad Gita is the sermonizer of the Gita, the scripture is said to be given by the God himself. And that is fundamental to any profession, any business, all over the world. So it says ritual scripture is not limited to any religion and is applicable, the basic principles. It’s basically like 10 commandments. And they’re so fundamental, and one needs to hit the high ethics and high work ethics and kind of honesty, and all those things are fundamental for survival in the first place. And then to make excellence, you need to persistently keep track of all that good quality. And then ultimately you’ll be able to do the service to humanity.
Daniel Lobell: (27:40)
Sounds beautiful. You know what I’ll tell you? I’ll meditate on it.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (27:42)
Exactly.
Daniel Lobell: (27:44)
Thank you very much. Dr. Patel.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (27:47)
There is a global family though, the world is so small. You move around and you feel like you are in five houses, the country that’s big and small, places these days.
Daniel Lobell: (27:59)
Yeah. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time and your knowledge.
Dr. Ramnik Patel: (28:02)
Yeah. Thank you very much.
Daniel Lobell: (28:12)
This podcast or any written material derived from its transcripts represents the opinions of the medical professional being interviewed. The content here is for informational purposes only, and should not be taken as medical advice. Since every person is unique, please consult your healthcare professional for any personal or specific needs.
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